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Thursday, 04 December, 2008, 20:52.14
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Author Topic: Premier league = morons  (Read 738 times)
Gazza
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Re: Premier league = morons
« Reply #20 on: Monday, 11 February, 2008, 19:56.39 »

Personally I would suggest further than the current idea and letting the so-called Big Four (that's the clubs currently in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 6th places) bugger off to an independent European (or even World) Super League with their money-hungry mates.

Leaving the remaining 15 clubs (I'm dumping Derby into the Championship) to join the top three from the second tier to create a COMPETITIVE 18-team English Premier League.

I personally hope this never ever happens! I don't want to see United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal playing sides like Bayern Munich, Barcelona and AC Milan week in week out. Isn't that the idea of the Champions League?
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Re: Premier league = morons
« Reply #21 on: Monday, 11 February, 2008, 20:06.54 »

In the past I have always agreed with that principle, but unfortunately the alternative is a world where only four teams ever have a hope of winning a trophy, which is the sorry state of football nowadays.

Here's a basic list of trophies won in the last three ten-year periods - and the decline of genuine "competition".

1978-1987
Liverpool   11
Everton      3
Nottm Forest   3
Arsenal      2
Tottenham   2
Man United   2
Ipswich Town   1
West Ham Utd   1
Coventry C   1
Oxford U   1
Norwich C   1
Wolves      1
Aston Villa   1

1988-1997
Man United   8
Liverpool   5
Arsenal      4
Aston Villa   2
Nottm Forest   2
Wimbledon   1
Tottenham   1
Everton      1
Chelsea      1
Leicester   1
Sheffield W   1
Luton      1
Blackburn R   1
Leeds United   1

1998-2007
Man United   8
Chelsea      7
Arsenal      7
Liverpool   4
Middlesbrough   1
Blackburn   1
Leicester   1
Tottenham   1
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Webmonkey
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Re: Premier league = morons
« Reply #22 on: Monday, 11 February, 2008, 20:30.09 »

That's what makes it even more special when one of the big four gets beat, or when one of the big four go out of the FA Cup etc. It's what Premier League sides outside the big four aspire to do week in week out.

As far as the league title is concerned, you're right, anyone out of the big four having a glimmer of hope of winning it is a country mile off. That is until someone like Aston Villa, Spurs or Newcastle get new investment and £200 million to spend on a new squad. Unfortunately money talks...
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Re: Premier league = morons
« Reply #23 on: Monday, 11 February, 2008, 21:13.57 »

But don't we have the best & most competitive league in the world? That is what SkySports keep telling me! Didn't Middlesborough beat Arsenal and WHam beat ManUre and Chelsea lose to both ManUre & Arsenal, it is a proper roller-coaster!

The best example of the hubris associated with the Premier league was on the BBC a few years ago when they showed ManUre's Champions league qualifier away leg against Honved which ended 1-1, John Motson ecstatically declared it to be the greatest moment in the "History of Hungarian Football" so it is official that not losing to ManUre is a greater achievement than being runners up in two World Cup competitions and winning 3 Olympic gold medals. It is doubtless that when His Majesty King Mohammed VI of Morocco decides to pay for Reading to play Wigan in a Premier league game in Casablanca it will be hailed, by John Motson & SkySports, as the greatest moment in the history of the entire continent of Africa.

The problem with getting rid of the alleged big four is that they would be replaced by another set - Spurts, Villa, Everton & Man City probably as I think that Newcastle exist purely for people to laugh at - but it might be a little bit more competitive for a couple of years before the new order establishes itself. Mind I could see Man City repeating their unique feat of being champions one season and relegated the next (only goal average stopped them coming last).
« Last Edit: Monday, 11 February, 2008, 21:32.58 by BtG » Logged

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Re: Premier league = morons
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday, 12 February, 2008, 13:47.35 »

Your definition of global in absolutely no way leads to the inevitability of playing matches abroad. We already have the richest league in the world without playing abroad. We don't need the money, especially if it means trading the integrity of our game for it.

Why can't we have a 'cosy domestic league'? I don't see the Italians or Spanish rushing to join in.

You can, and many people will agree with you. But it won't have anything like the level of investment and quality the Premier League has now.

Asking the current owners & shareholders of Premier League clubs to do such a thing is like asking Turkeys to vote for Christmas - they would take their money elsewhere (Good Riddance some would say).

Owners & shareholders of EPL clubs (even Abramovich) all want a return on their investment if they can get one. The obvious way of doing it (now that the domestic market has been milked 'till the pips squeak) is to tap into commercial and fan-based revenue from overseas, a-la Everton with their "Chang" shirts and the Big Four with their juggernaut merchandising and "prestige friendly" operations. It would be nice if it stopped there, but it's been successful in generating even more demand, so it won't.....  As the saying goes, you can't get a little bit pregnant....

The logical conclusion of all this would be to have a "European Super League" , the old chestnut Dan mentioned. The top EPL, Serie A, Bundesliga and La Liga clubs who have the most money and "biggest brands" can get on with it, leaving the rest to play in cosy domestic leagues which would always struggle to attract serious investment and top quality players.

Trouble is,
A) It's hard to see how FIFA/UEFA could sanction it (screws up existing Euro competions and all sorts of TV/Media/Sponsorship deals)  ....and
B) I can hear the furore already from the majority of teams who would lose out big-time ......

As for the Italians and Spanish not "rushing to join in", it's just a matter of time. Their leagues are similar, with the dominant "big clubs" all heavily involved in "overseas" commercial activities in the same way as ManUre, Liverpool etc. The Premier League were the first to put their head above the parapet, that's all.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, 12 February, 2008, 14:31.19 by BigTone » Logged
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Re: Premier league = morons
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday, 12 February, 2008, 14:51.44 »

One of the reasons for the formation of the Premier League was to reduce the number of teams in the top flight to 18 thereby reducing the number of matches played. Now the argument is for more league games and not only that but to play them on the other side of the world. You can guarantee that the 39th game is just the start of a lengthening of the season.

If successful (ie more money is made) there will be 40 games the following season and so on. It's money grabbing, pure and simple, there is no integrity left in football.

One of the reasons, yes - but not the main one, which was to make money for themselves outside the "shackles" of the football league as they saw it.

And also, they were being a little opportunistic with the "reduced games" stuff - yes, it reduces the number of matches played (= concession to managers, players and governing bodies) but it also means there are fewer clubs to share the pot amongst (= more money for each club).

You heard a lot about the first factor, hardly anything about the second...

The Premier League has always been about Business ever since it came into being. I'm just surprised it's taken 18 years or whatever to get to this stage!!
« Last Edit: Tuesday, 12 February, 2008, 15:02.21 by BigTone » Logged
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Re: Premier league = morons
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday, 12 February, 2008, 18:59.36 »

FA Premier League clubs make it pretty clear they don't want their top players playing for their country because of the extra games, the League Cup is now a sideshow etc but give them the lure of £4 million each by playing an extra game overseas and they can't get their snouts into the trough quick enough.

The 39th game is now being dressed up as an opportunity for fans here to watch 5 consecutive games each day of the weekend allotted for the 39th game. Oh joy. Who in their right minds will want to watch that many games each day.
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Re: Premier league = morons
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday, 12 February, 2008, 23:29.00 »

The 39th game is now being dressed up as an opportunity for fans here to watch 5 consecutive games each day of the weekend allotted for the 39th game. Oh joy. Who in their right minds will want to watch that many games each day.

That is a pub binge up at which even I might turn my nose.  buck2
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If I fall over I am going to make sure that I land on something soft.

Now I wanna sniff some glue
Now I wanna have somethin' to do
All the kids wanna sniff some glue
All the kids want somethin' to do.
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